How Owner/Developers Can Best Get Started with Modular Construction w/ R & S Tavares Associates [podcast transcript]

Anthony Gude

Okay, well, I can answer that in a number of ways. I guess we could say that the timelines being accelerated and the benefits of modular construction, there is a tradeoff. Teams need to work more cohesively and that ultimately, the way the constraints of fabricators work, get the front load that design process into the project workflow. So ultimately, what many designers should acknowledge early on is that the design process looks very different than that of traditional construction, maybe not in form, but in in structure, and the importance of communication across the team. So, at R & S, we've invested a lot in keeping our teams cohesive and streamline to turn around designs quickly, because ultimately, there's more of a call for speed and accuracy early on in the process. So, I would say that those are the two primary focuses that that should be brought to a designer's attention early on in the project.

John McMullen

Gotcha. Pedro…

Anthony Gude

If I could jump in with a plug real quick. One thing that's unique about us is that we have our staff right now is half architectural designers and half engineers. I think that's unique for a firm of our type catering, the modular construction, we handle, basically, every discipline in house. We’ll author the A, S and P sheets on a project. We're kind of a one stop shop for anyone looking at doing a modular project.

John McMullen

Well, that's fantastic. You actually led me to my next question. We're talking about designers, and you brought up engineers. Pedro, I was wondering if you could speak to something for me. How can modular engineers—with all the variables that they juggle on any given project: materials, volatility, location, the needs of the facility, all these things—how can they best leverage the modular construction process?

Pedro Tavares

I think the best leveraging comes really from getting into the weeds with that manufacturer and seeing what they're comfortable with and what makes them sort of take a step back. If you go in with a lot of complexity that a manufacturer is not used to, you're going to wind up with scheduling problems, delays in the construction and probably a cost increase just because it's kind of strange. When we developed our first project here in San Diego, we got into development a number of years ago. It was funny because we go to manufacturer A, for instance, and say we want a level four drywall finish. And they'd say, well, that's going to be way too expensive, we're not going to be able to do that. Then we'd also tell them this was like a predominantly residential builder, manufacturer A, for instance, that I'm talking about in this case we'd say, we want our bathroom, fully tiled, floors and walls. They say, okay, that's no problem.

Manufacturer B on the other hand, it's more of a commercial modular builder, we'd say, we want that level four drywall finished, they said, no problem to that, but the tile work was a big problem for them. So, it's just kind of these tradeoffs between manufacturers and what they're used to.

John McMullen

So, let's go back to that first time, owner, developer, Anthony. The first-time owner developer, once he or she has a project in mind and has started to work on a plan, when does the full team that Pedro mentioned early on, when does that full team of GCS the manufacturers, when do they come into the picture? What's the best way for that team to communicate and coordinate?

Anthony Gude

Well, the answer to that one is simple as early and as soon as possible. We see a great benefit in those project teams that come together early. Primarily so we can sort out those tradeoffs that Pedro is referring to, for efficiencies that we can gain early in the process. And then as a team comes together, and everyone gets familiar with the needs of this unified group, then determine how you're going to translate and communicate designs and draft and how you're going to approach the project from a scheduling standpoint. So ultimately, the answer is as early as possible, and open up your options to those team members that are best suited for the project. Many want to win the business, of course, but there's a lot of different considerations from geography to finishes, as Pedro was referring to. So that's, best sorted out as early as possible.

John McMullen

And Pedro, again, for the first-time owner developer, what are some of the unique construction considerations involved in modular? What should they expect and how will it differ from their traditional still stick built projects that they've done in the past?

Pedro Tavares

I think you need to be aware that the modules themselves, they're basically limited by shipping constraints, and what we can do on the road, and perhaps at sea, or however these modules are getting to the site. There are width limitations on those and with varying widths come increased costs, because once you pass certain thresholds, there are pilot cars needed and things like that perhaps CHP, or Highway Patrol escorts, they get kind of expensive. There's also a high consideration due to shipping, getting under those overpasses and other areas like that. Once you exceed a certain height, you need to get a specific kind of special permit that also gets expensive. There's the length as well, which is kind of unlimited actually. You'll see those wind turbine blades going down the highway at times. The length isn't really much of a limitation other than it's often limited by the manufacturer's capabilities of what they can fit under their roof. I think that those are the biggest considerations when designing a modular project and exactly where those mate lines meet up, how you're doing your service crossovers with plumbing, electrical and mechanical. Yeah, those are definitely the largest considerations that need to be made on a modular project.

John McMullen

Gotcha. A question for both of you, in all your time at R & S Tavares, can you tell me about some of the lessons you've learned during your time in the industry? Are there specific projects that you can tell us about that were particularly helpful in your understanding of the potential for modular?

Pedro Tavares

One project in particular that I lost a lot of hair on was a replacement hospital in Joplin, Missouri for the hospital that got destroyed by a category five tornado a number of years ago. That project, wound up being the fastest built medical facility of its size, like in the United States. It was a rush to get that done, that area had a need for that facility and so everybody really kind of put the boots on the ground and work that out. We got that thing designed, permitted in probably a record amount of time. And it was up and running soon after, with the involvement of a couple manufacturers, Walden Structures, that's no longer a manufacturer here in California, as well as NRB, I think, worked on modules for that, and we shipped it out to Joplin, and kept that up and running.

John McMullen

So, what was the key to the getting that done so quickly?

Pedro Tavares

It was just a really integrated design team, manufacturer, ourselves and the architect. In that case, we're just in constant communication, and just sending paperwork, sending drawings back and forth, and having a good RFI process and things like that.

John McMullen

Anthony, were you going to say something earlier?

Anthony Gude

Oh, yes, I was going to have Pedro take it first with the project experience. I had a feeling you'd bring that one up. For me, being involved and sort of transitioning to a structural focused firm, for me highlighted the importance of structural value engineering, Really from being one of the primary cruxes, sort of in getting that value from your premier modular project. Before that, I was at DC firms, and there's a lot of coordination and emphasis on planning. But it wasn't until I was here, sort of as a copilot, that I really got to see firsthand how that kind of comes together. And then of course, what is the key to a great project is that integration and that cross communication across the teams. And really, there's a direct link, there's almost less of a, there's a need for that efficiency, for it all to come together. And that's primarily where firms should be investing and progressing. At RST, that's our system. And our process is to work as efficiently, quickly and effectively with clients and partners.

John McMullen

Excellent! I’ve got one more question. What does the rest of 2021 look like for RST? I've been talking to lots of people and their calendars are full. So, what's the year look like for you and beyond that?

Pedro Tavares

Well, just in the last few months, we made a handful of hires growing rather quickly. And yes, like much of the modular design and construction industry we're seeing quite a pickup in demand. So, we're out here meeting that demand trying to make sure we serve our clients incredibly, effectively. And yeah, so it's mostly a hire up to meet demand and streamlining those systems so we can turn around designs quickly and get these projects out the door.

John McMullen

Out of curiosity, have you noticed any trends lately in what you're designing the types of projects that that come in the door or is it a mixed bag?

Anthony Gude

Oh, boy it’s mixed. Pedro, do you want to answer that one?

Pedro Tavares

Yeah, sure. It is mixed, but we're real busy on the ADU side of things right now. The state of California is really pushing the creation of those trying to meet housing demand, thinking that that might be a way to do it. So, we're doing a lot of ADUs. Container projects are still popular and keep becoming more popular so we're doing a lot of container projects. And then just multifamily. It's the same thing. The housing crisis in California, is just pushing multifamily projects. So, a lot of five over one, five over two podium projects, and big apartment projects, things like that. A lot of what we're doing right now.

John McMullen

Nice. I know MBI is involved in a lot of stuff in California and lots of states, but particularly in California, getting those projects off the ground and trying to clear some red tape. So that's great that you guys are staying busy with that.

Thank you guys so much for your time today. I think this was really great information. I think the first-time owner developer hearing this will have a much better understanding of what to expect what he's getting into. So, thanks again. This was great.

Anthony Gude

Thank you, John. Thank you for having us.

John McMullen

My name is John McMullen, and this has been another episode of Inside Modular: The Podcast of Commercial Modular Construction. Until next time.